HOPE USED REGEN AND VANILLE CAST DEATH

[lowkey]

Today was a good day. I proofed a story for danchekker, commented with mako_lies and nal_rene, and edited my EPIC TIME TRAVEL FIC.

And then a I broke a cutie and and wrote an epic boss battle between Hope and and an ax-crazy Vanille. THE END

Comments

[mako_lies]

I think what I really enjoy about Fang as a character is so much of her thought-process and her emotions are such a mystery. It was a welcome relief in a game that pretty much bludgeoned you with every new development.

The problem with Fang, for me, is that she was totally unstable, but they never really portrayed her that way. She was portrayed as consistent, as another member of the team, and I think that's where I get confused?

It was like... they didn't want to delve into the self-destructive side of Fang, didn't want to give us her logic, or show us anything besides ANGER then ACCEPTANCE and then... she randomly goes toward ANGER again.

I don't know. Like, on some levels, it made sense to me, but the way it was presented in-game really really threw me for a loop, and I keep trying to figure it out, because it made no sense, without making excuses for Fang, but the best thing I keep coming up with is that something was making her even more unstable than she already was, and she doesn't know how to deal with grief, and, also, a berserk button that's a giant fucking monster with the capacity to destroy the world?


Actually, come to think of it, Fang's giving into the whole saving the world thing always seemed pretty weak to me too. Like, one second she was gonna destroy Cocoon and then Bahamut made her reconsider, but... ??? I don't know. Maybe I don't believe strongly enough in the power of the Eidolon?


(God, if this rant made any sense, it's a miracle.)

[lowkey]

QFT, man.

As best I can figure it, she's violent and angry, and she feels that she'll never have peace; the most she can strive for is to stand guard on the wall, and make safe someone else's happy life. But there's also this self-destructive streak where she she really wants revenge, and damn everything else. But it isn't clear what follows after that revenge. Starting over? Death? Finding peace?

And these duel compulsions -- to protect and destroy -- make her a highly unpredictable character, and I totally think you're right when you point out that she's unstable (or at the least, always sitting at an unstable equilibrium), and the game does a poor job exploring that. Instead, we over-analyzing players are stuck with a really inconsistent character. But she's also quite captivating, and all this together makes her a really interesting character for us fanfic writers.

[mako_lies]

YES. You hit something there, about the duel compulsions. Interesting. God. Fang is such an interesting character, but she's so hard to understand. Especially because we don't see where she's coming from, or get bludgeoned by her feelings, or anything like we do with the other characters.

[mako_lies]

We do get bludgeoned by her actions, though. Which is interesting, because Fang is very much an action-driven character.

Maybe it's because Fang doesn't understand her own feelings or motivations? Or she doesn't want anyone else to understand them? Hence why we never get to understand?

[lowkey]

Awesome. So awesome.

Also: in a completely selfish note, I like that my characterization of grown-up, timetraveling!Hope is very similar to your Snow, because, let's face it -- Hope is going to grown up to be a cooler Snow.

[lowkey]

I'd like to think that she acts instead of thinking.

Segue into a completely different fandom that I think is relevant to this topic. One of the things that I really, really loved about Trigun was the juxtaposition of Vash and Wolfwood. Both men want a better world, but have very different outlooks on how to bring that world about. Vash has enough power and enough compassion that he wants everyone to live, and he thinks that the world can be made better. Wolfwood isn't as strong, and he feels his mortality very acutely, and he knows that he has very specific, defenseless people -- orphans -- to lookout for. And if one day he doesn't move fast enough, he will die, and then the orphans will die, too. So he can't think; he has to act on instinct all the time, and draw first, and shoot to kill. And he recognizes this makes him a bad man -- but, he hopes, for all the right reasons.

And I wonder if Fang is relevantly similar to Wolfwood. The obvious parallel with the orphanage aside, I think she's realistic in a way that no one else in the party is, except maybe Sazh. Even Lightning lets herself be convinced by Snow and Hope; or at least she loses herself in the action of the moment. I think your second excerpt posted below -- which I was just about to comment on, but will comment here, instead -- really gets at that. Fang admits Ragnorak is inevitable. No one else will, and she feels like she has to bear the weight of that alone. Because everything is not going to be okay, and someone will need to fall.

In Fang's mind, there's no happy ending. And so maybe... maybe she turns on Vanille as a mercy killing. She knows Vanille doesn't want to be Ragnorak again, and anyways, she's not going to let Vanille carry that burden.

[mako_lies]

Grown-up timetraveling!Hope is very similar to Snow, I think. I think the differences lie in exuberance and the way each of them have depth.

Hope's depth, from what I can understand, is his quieter side, the side with the feelings and the way he takes in the world. His empathy, in other words.

Snow's depth is a little different, in that he keeps going and believing and believing, but when his doubts are picked on and prodded at, he becomes a mess of a man, struggling to find the belief that fueled him.

Both of which are really compelling.

Anyway, I'm apparently in a thinky mood today, XD

Sorry if I type your eyeballs off.

[lowkey]

THINKING TIMES AHOY

I'm in a "deep thoughts about dumb subjects" sorta mood, not really a "let's write some fic" mood. So I think we're prodding each other along.

But: you've totally hit on the difference between Hope and Snow. Hope's the type to enjoy a quiet afternoon reading, and Snow is like WE NEED TO BUILD A NEW BIRD HOUSE.

Also: I think Snow might be a better fit for Isaac than anyone else. He's so heroically absurd.

[mako_lies]

You know? You make a compelling argument about Fang. Ragnorak is inevitable, one way or another. Even if they kill the Fal'Cie or let themselves die. Because another group of L'Cie will be made with their exact focus. The Fal'Cie don't need them, they need their power. They need someone will the anger and drive to become Ragnorak and Fang is a good candidate, simply because she has a lot to prove, a lot she feels she needs to answer for, and enough self-loathing that she'll do whatever it takes for the one(s) she holds on a pedestal.

The mercy kill thing does suddenly make sense of Fang's sudden MUST SMASH VANILLE moment at the end of game, because Fang seems to fear them becoming Cie'th with this sort of intensity I can't even begin to make sense of.

I mean, it's pretty terrible, but she's the only one who seems to think it's more terrible than killing millions of people? Maybe because it's a fate she wouldn't share? Maybe because of something that happened in the past?

You know, I think a lot of the reality of the situation and the characters were lost when Enix decided the game NEEDED a T rating. Because there were a lot of dark concepts, a lot of horror and if they really delved into it? Didn't let the characters wane and wax heroic and hopeful? It would've become to dark and terrible for that sort of rating, I think.

[mako_lies]

Ahaha, so Snow and... for Miria... Vanille?


I'm writing a deep Agrias fic, and writing about XIII with you. Good times are good.


I DON'T CARE WE ALREADY HAVE THIRTY BIRDHOUSES. I WANT TO MAKE ANOTHER ONE. NOW.

[lowkey]

And Serah's like "LETS DO IT."

But of course Vanille would be a better fit. Maybe Fang can teach Serah archery or something.

And Lightning smiles and rolls her eyes at Hope, and everything is beautiful.

[mako_lies]

YESSSS.

:)

God, though. Am I the only one who sees the similarities between Fang and Snow? Like, they both act and have these huge, gaping doubts. And they have someone they'd do anything for, and ideas they won't compromise on? And a need to protect people (*sentinel*).

It always strikes me about writing them. Except Snow's like... the good half of that, and Fang's the warped half?

[lowkey]

And Sazh goes to the zoo with Dajh, and Jihl tags along, and Rosch is the police inspector that has harsh-but-fair and takes his job very seriously and keeps everyone safe. And Rygdea is a country singer and he lives with Cid, who... flys airships, obviously.

[lowkey]

No, that's a fantastic point, and I never ever really considered the similarity between Snow and Fang -- though of course, your fic does a good job bringing that out.

BUT I wouldn't say Fang is the warped half. I'd say instead: Fang protects by punching; Snow protects by taking the punch.

[mako_lies]

Rygdea... as a country-singer. OH GOD.


Er--am I the only one who sees a certain amount of similarity between Rygdea and Laguna? Like, how they look and stuff?

[lowkey]

Okay, I don't really see that. BUT. I'm pretty certain I can be convinced of anything.

[mako_lies]

IDK, maybe it was the hair, the gun, and the uniform?

[mako_lies]

Oh, yeah. You totally just that knocked that out of the park.

Snow wants to protect everyone, and keep them safe by making sure no hit lands, and everyone feels safe, more importantly.

Fang, in contrast, wants to beat down the threat, at whatever cost, no matter what. No matter how it makes the people around her feel.

God, between the two of them, I almost feel bad for anyone who threatens their family.

[lowkey]

Imagine Rygdea swinging from a rope, blasting his way through PSICOM troops, while "The Man with the Machine Gun" plays.

I can see it.

But the difference is: Rygdea seems alot more angry. Laguna is all about being chill, and accidently getting lost, and shit like that.

[mako_lies]

Yeah. XD

Where Rygdea is tough as nails, Laguna is adorkable.

[lowkey]

I can totally see that with Fang. "Suck it up, party. Look, I'm covered in their blood, and that Fatality move was totally called for. But they're not covered in your blood, and that's all I really care about."

And seriously: the two of them would be a terrifying force to behold. So long as Snow doesn't stand around going "STEELGUARD!"

[mako_lies]

Ahaha, but if he remembers to do challenge/provoke first, and Fang is commando with back-up from Bahamut, they don't need a healer, and they kick a hellova lot of ass.


I mean, it pings on their respective strengths, getting bashed, and bashing.

[nal_rene]

Wow... Bri and I do this a lot... a lot... like all the time... wow...

Bullying the Dragon too... we do that a lot... but mostly we do a lot of breaking everyone so... is there a tvtrope for that?

[lowkey]

hahah. "Rocks fall; everyone is hurt."

[lowkey]

I really like "Bullying the Dragon" because there's an element of justice often built into the trope.