HOPE USED REGEN AND VANILLE CAST DEATH

[lowkey]

Today was a good day. I proofed a story for danchekker, commented with mako_lies and nal_rene, and edited my EPIC TIME TRAVEL FIC.

And then a I broke a cutie and and wrote an epic boss battle between Hope and and an ax-crazy Vanille. THE END

Comments

[lowkey]

Because... it would be awesome. And because that's what I thing they have in common. And because I want to juxtapose the different sides of Lightning -- that she doesn't need to be violent, that that's a control mechanism for her.

[mako_lies]

Ahaha, no. I meant Hope would be like 'but why?' because of your Hope/Light aspect, XD

I really enjoy the violence in their relationship. I mean, first fic of them I wrote was them sparring and Fang beating the shit out of Light. It's actually something about their characters I really enjoy exploring.

Especially Fang. I mean, so much about Fang's logic is flawed. I mean: I'd rather destroy the whole world including you all, rather than see you become monsters. I mean, how in the hell do you get to a place where that seems like a logical solution?

[lowkey]

You have a messed up childhood:

They had temporarily escaped the heat of the day, Fang and he, by sitting in the shade of one the spring's overhangs. Years later, Hope could still vividly recall the scene -- the breeze coming off of the water; the cool stone underfoot, forever untouched by the sun; the stark contrast between their shadow-ensconced enclave and the brightly-lit canyon beyond; the gentle murmur of the falls, crashing some distance away.

In hindsight, Fang had probably wanted to sit in silence, but Hope was young and uncertain, and to keep the self-doubt from setting in, he needed to talk. He started to mumble something; Fang glared back. But Hope decided to forge on. "Did you ever come here before, you know, you completed your Focus?"

Fang sighed. "A few times. Not much has changed. Just as beautiful as ever." Her lips twisted up into a smirk. "Just as dangerous."

Silence crept back into the alcove, but it was Fang that chose to speak next. "You scared, kid?"

It was a kindness, posing the statement as a question. Of course he was scared; only a madwoman like Fang thrived on uncertainty and discord. But she was giving him a chance to voice his fear, and that meant something.

"Well, yeah." Hope shrugged, trying to look a little less concerned than he felt. "I don't know what's going to happen. I don't... I don't know what to do." What else was there to say? He was a normal boy from a normal family, and every night, when the behemoths howled in the distance, he flinched.

Fang stood up, looking out across the water. From the side, Hope could tell she was still smirking, but her eyes were pained, and her voice took a far-away tone. "When I was young, there was a lobo den in this chasm, right across the water from where we are now. The cubs were cute lil' things."

A pause. "One of them mauled an orphans from Oerba. I killed the den."

"I'm... I'm sorry," Hope said instinctively, realizing even as he spoke that it was the exact wrong thing to say.

"I don't need your sympathy," Fang snarled. "I did what I did to protect the people I loved. Just..." The anger started to fade from her voice. "What I'm trying to say is, suck it up, kid. We all hafta play the hand that Lady Luck deals us, even if it's not the hand we like, or wanted." She motioned with her head. "Now come on, let's see if we can scrounge up something to eat."

[mako_lies]

Nice snippet. ♥ Really like the moment you've captured there.

I don't know. Fang is such a mystery to me, because she wants to save Vanille, but killing her is a good option? Like, a messed up childhood (being an orphan, growing up on Pulse, being bloodthirsty--

You know? What if it has something to do with Ragnorak being contained in her? Like, it makes her in pain or twists her emotions? The brands on the other people are controlled by emotion, maybe Fang's brand (which is warped and twisted) affects her emotions?

[lowkey]

That's a good idea, but I don't like excusing her behavior to outside influences.

THAT SAID, I still totally do not understand why she tried to kill Vanille at the end of the game.

[mako_lies]

Oh, god no. I'm not trying to excuse her. At all. Because what she did was wrong and self-destructive and she hurt the people around her.

I mean, I felt for her, but that doesn't make it right.


But I mean, there has to be some sort of explanation? Because it didn't make sense, at all. And she had gotten over that stint earlier in the game, with Bahamut and then the scene with Vanille before they get to Oerba.

It was all Fang. Fang's anger and Fang's knee jerk reaction to give into the Fal'Cie demands in order to save Vanille, but maybe Ragnorak pushed at those buttons, pushed Fang just a little farther? Pushed out even the potential for reason?

[lowkey]

Okay, I'm glad we're on the same page about Fang. Because while I understand her continued willingness to become Ragnorak (of course, that means I have to ignore the "we have a new family now, Vanille" scene on Gran Pulse), I just don't understand why she pulls her blade on Vanille.

I really hate it when characters behave inconsistently, and then we're expected to accept/explain it. aaaarrrggghghghghghghghg

[mako_lies]

I think what I really enjoy about Fang as a character is so much of her thought-process and her emotions are such a mystery. It was a welcome relief in a game that pretty much bludgeoned you with every new development.

The problem with Fang, for me, is that she was totally unstable, but they never really portrayed her that way. She was portrayed as consistent, as another member of the team, and I think that's where I get confused?

It was like... they didn't want to delve into the self-destructive side of Fang, didn't want to give us her logic, or show us anything besides ANGER then ACCEPTANCE and then... she randomly goes toward ANGER again.

I don't know. Like, on some levels, it made sense to me, but the way it was presented in-game really really threw me for a loop, and I keep trying to figure it out, because it made no sense, without making excuses for Fang, but the best thing I keep coming up with is that something was making her even more unstable than she already was, and she doesn't know how to deal with grief, and, also, a berserk button that's a giant fucking monster with the capacity to destroy the world?


Actually, come to think of it, Fang's giving into the whole saving the world thing always seemed pretty weak to me too. Like, one second she was gonna destroy Cocoon and then Bahamut made her reconsider, but... ??? I don't know. Maybe I don't believe strongly enough in the power of the Eidolon?


(God, if this rant made any sense, it's a miracle.)

[lowkey]

QFT, man.

As best I can figure it, she's violent and angry, and she feels that she'll never have peace; the most she can strive for is to stand guard on the wall, and make safe someone else's happy life. But there's also this self-destructive streak where she she really wants revenge, and damn everything else. But it isn't clear what follows after that revenge. Starting over? Death? Finding peace?

And these duel compulsions -- to protect and destroy -- make her a highly unpredictable character, and I totally think you're right when you point out that she's unstable (or at the least, always sitting at an unstable equilibrium), and the game does a poor job exploring that. Instead, we over-analyzing players are stuck with a really inconsistent character. But she's also quite captivating, and all this together makes her a really interesting character for us fanfic writers.

[mako_lies]

YES. You hit something there, about the duel compulsions. Interesting. God. Fang is such an interesting character, but she's so hard to understand. Especially because we don't see where she's coming from, or get bludgeoned by her feelings, or anything like we do with the other characters.

[mako_lies]

We do get bludgeoned by her actions, though. Which is interesting, because Fang is very much an action-driven character.

Maybe it's because Fang doesn't understand her own feelings or motivations? Or she doesn't want anyone else to understand them? Hence why we never get to understand?

[lowkey]

I'd like to think that she acts instead of thinking.

Segue into a completely different fandom that I think is relevant to this topic. One of the things that I really, really loved about Trigun was the juxtaposition of Vash and Wolfwood. Both men want a better world, but have very different outlooks on how to bring that world about. Vash has enough power and enough compassion that he wants everyone to live, and he thinks that the world can be made better. Wolfwood isn't as strong, and he feels his mortality very acutely, and he knows that he has very specific, defenseless people -- orphans -- to lookout for. And if one day he doesn't move fast enough, he will die, and then the orphans will die, too. So he can't think; he has to act on instinct all the time, and draw first, and shoot to kill. And he recognizes this makes him a bad man -- but, he hopes, for all the right reasons.

And I wonder if Fang is relevantly similar to Wolfwood. The obvious parallel with the orphanage aside, I think she's realistic in a way that no one else in the party is, except maybe Sazh. Even Lightning lets herself be convinced by Snow and Hope; or at least she loses herself in the action of the moment. I think your second excerpt posted below -- which I was just about to comment on, but will comment here, instead -- really gets at that. Fang admits Ragnorak is inevitable. No one else will, and she feels like she has to bear the weight of that alone. Because everything is not going to be okay, and someone will need to fall.

In Fang's mind, there's no happy ending. And so maybe... maybe she turns on Vanille as a mercy killing. She knows Vanille doesn't want to be Ragnorak again, and anyways, she's not going to let Vanille carry that burden.

[mako_lies]

You know? You make a compelling argument about Fang. Ragnorak is inevitable, one way or another. Even if they kill the Fal'Cie or let themselves die. Because another group of L'Cie will be made with their exact focus. The Fal'Cie don't need them, they need their power. They need someone will the anger and drive to become Ragnorak and Fang is a good candidate, simply because she has a lot to prove, a lot she feels she needs to answer for, and enough self-loathing that she'll do whatever it takes for the one(s) she holds on a pedestal.

The mercy kill thing does suddenly make sense of Fang's sudden MUST SMASH VANILLE moment at the end of game, because Fang seems to fear them becoming Cie'th with this sort of intensity I can't even begin to make sense of.

I mean, it's pretty terrible, but she's the only one who seems to think it's more terrible than killing millions of people? Maybe because it's a fate she wouldn't share? Maybe because of something that happened in the past?

You know, I think a lot of the reality of the situation and the characters were lost when Enix decided the game NEEDED a T rating. Because there were a lot of dark concepts, a lot of horror and if they really delved into it? Didn't let the characters wane and wax heroic and hopeful? It would've become to dark and terrible for that sort of rating, I think.

[lowkey]

AND I DID IT AGAIN

DAMN IT

[mako_lies]

I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL. HERE. TO MAKE UP FOR IT.


He’s not very surprised to find her standing alone, truth be told. All the others are back in the house, watching Vanille fiddle with her robot, and he’s pretty sure he’s the only one who noticed Fang slink out. Shoulders hunched against the wind--or against reality--she stares out at the sea, and the railroad crumbling into dust.

“Fang?” he says and the line of her shoulders tightens.

She doesn’t turn to face him, just keeps staring. “Yeah?”

Her voice is even, perfectly controlled, but it’s lacking her normal personality, a hollowness there that makes him reach a hand up to grasp his necklace. It occurs to him then that he has no idea what to say--sorry won’t cut it, sorry won’t make it okay, and losing Serah can’t be anything compared to this, can it? “Fang,” he says, and reaches out to grasp her shoulder. “We’ll get them back for this.”

“You wanna know something about Cie’th?” she asks him, there’s no emotion to her voice, but he can feel the way her muscles tighten beneath his hand.

After a moment’s pause, he says, “Sure.”

For a long time, she just keeps looking outwards, no real movement except for the stirrings of her controlled breaths, and he tightens his grip on her till it’s almost painful. If he didn’t know she could handle it, he wouldn’t, but she can, so he does. “A Cie’th’s size is controlled by how big and strong a person was before they turned,” she straightens to perfect posture, and she stares up at the sky, and he looks down at her, and winces at the pain there, “Those little Cie’th? They’re the children, Snow.”

Truth be told, he’d guessed as much. But he waits, because she obviously needs--needs something, and maybe if he stands here, with her, he’ll be able to figure it out and give it to her.

“When I came of age at sixteen, I took over the orphanage, lookin’ after all the kids who’d lost their parents to the war,” she tells him, her voice still even, disaffected, but he can feel the almost imperceptible shudder than runs through her like a current.

Snow expels a breath. “Fang--”

“Don’t tell me it’s going to be all right,” she snaps, “Because it’s not. I made a promise, that day. To keep them safe. To keep Vanille safe. And I didn’t, I did the opposite.”

[lowkey]

DANG

DANG

That was awesome.

DANG.

You write a much better Fang than I; I could totally see this whole scene happening in the game. Like, her saying those lines and everything.

And also: I like that we independently wrote what is basically the same scene.

What is this from/was this for?

[mako_lies]

Fang's a hard character to write, I'll give her that. I think it's mostly getting her cadence down that I see people have trouble with. Your Fang is really good, I thought, so...?

XD Great minds think alike, XD

Anyway, I'll post the rest of the scene so you kinda understand what's happening, but it's kinda a prelude to this fic. It's part of a shorter three-part fic I'm in the process of writing.


Her hand comes up, and she clutches at her brand, nails digging into the flesh there, until he can see the skin breaking, and then she releases a ragged breath, and tries to pull herself away from him. He doesn’t let her go; she snarls a string of words he can’t understand, but is probably Oerban for ‘fuck off, fucker’. Any other time, it would make him smile.

“This is my fault. See--I was stupid, so fucking stupid. The Cocoonians had killed a friend of mine and I--I wanted retribution. And I thought that if I was a L’Cie, I could. I could beat them, make them pay for what I did. So I went to Anima and asked to be made a L’Cie, but I didn’t realize--Vanille had followed. In trying to protect my Village, I had dragged down my best friend--my partner--and then no one was there to look after the orphans when we went to Cocoon. And I’m Ragnorak. I destroyed--and caused all of this mess and now Oerba--”

Fang falters, digging into her mark even more painfully, and Snow tugs her into his arms, and rests his head on hers; she falls silent, tense. “Fang, it’s not your fault.”

“Fuck you,” she murmurs, making no move to shove him away, looking at the ruined tracks again, “You’re all talk.”

He waits--just holds her there, feels her breathe (even coming apart at all her seams, she’s still rigid and proud in his arms, and he can’t help but wonder whether or not it’s a good thing)--and she finally expells a breath that sounds like the aftershock of a sob. Snow tightens his hold on her; maybe if he squeezes tight enough, she’ll realize that she’s not alone.

Finally, finally, she pulls her hand from her mark, and he can just barely see that she’s bleeding. “You should just kill me,” she murmurs.

“Fang--”

“Listen,” she snaps, and it occurs to him that this isn’t something that just came to her, that’s she’s been thinking it for awhile. “If you’re serious about protecting Cocoon, saving it or whatever? It’s gonna have to happen. Ragnorak. I’m Ragnorak. To protect Cocoon, I have to fall. And I--I can’t turn, Snow. Not into a Cie’th and there’s... Something different. I haven’t been able to figure it out before now, but I think I understand it. Why my mark’s all messed up?”

Snow spins her around, making her face him, and he says, “Fang. Think about it, for a second, will you? Killing you won’t save Cocoon. They’ll make the next sorry sap into Ragnorak.”

“I’m not dying, Snow. Every second of our lives, we’re dying one little second at a time. But I’m not like that, anymore. I’m not dying. I’m going to live until someone kills me or until I become Ragnorak and do what the Fal’Cie want me to do. I don’t want that, Snow. Imortality or becoming a fucking puppet. Maybe that makes me selfish, but I don’t fucking give a damn.”

His eyes shut for a moment--tries to get his bearings, tries to respond from a place that isn’t colored by his own gaping loss--and then he mumurs, “Fang, we’ll sort this out,” he pauses, “I promise. It’ll be okay.”

Her lips pull back, and she chokes on the snarl. “Fuck, Snow. You can’t save everyone. You’re going to have to make a choice.”

“We’ll figure it out when we get there, then.”

Fang turns her head, looking away; Snow sighs, reaches up and scratches the back of his head. “Fang...” he exhales a breath that’s not nearly as even as he’d like it to be. “We’re not going to abandon you to fight alone. You’re not going to be left alone while we’re all Cie’th.”

She looks back up at him, face relaxing for a moment, and then she turns away again. “You can’t promise me that.”

“So what can I do, Fang? Let me help--that’s what family’s for, right?”

For a long time, she doesn’t move, doesn’t speak, and then she presses her face into his chest. But she doesn’t shake with tears, doesn’t do anything but rest there, and he reaches out and gently strokes her hair, because there’s really not anything else he can do for her, not really. Not right now. Not like this.

It’s so quiet he nearly misses it. “Don’t leave,” she murmurs.

And that’s for sure something he can do.

“C’mon,” he says, “Heroes don’t leave anyone behind, you know that.”

She sighs and then pulls away from him, face a mask of strength, but there’s a look in her eyes that, frankly, terrifies him (terrifies him enough to wonder if they’re going to wake up one morning and find that Fang’s gone, for good) and she says, “Let’s go back. They’ll be gettin’ worried.”

Fang’s gone before he can stop her. All he can do now is cross his fingers and make sure she doesn’t do anything stupid.

[lowkey]

Awesome. So awesome.

Also: in a completely selfish note, I like that my characterization of grown-up, timetraveling!Hope is very similar to your Snow, because, let's face it -- Hope is going to grown up to be a cooler Snow.

[mako_lies]

Grown-up timetraveling!Hope is very similar to Snow, I think. I think the differences lie in exuberance and the way each of them have depth.

Hope's depth, from what I can understand, is his quieter side, the side with the feelings and the way he takes in the world. His empathy, in other words.

Snow's depth is a little different, in that he keeps going and believing and believing, but when his doubts are picked on and prodded at, he becomes a mess of a man, struggling to find the belief that fueled him.

Both of which are really compelling.

Anyway, I'm apparently in a thinky mood today, XD

Sorry if I type your eyeballs off.

[lowkey]

THINKING TIMES AHOY

I'm in a "deep thoughts about dumb subjects" sorta mood, not really a "let's write some fic" mood. So I think we're prodding each other along.

But: you've totally hit on the difference between Hope and Snow. Hope's the type to enjoy a quiet afternoon reading, and Snow is like WE NEED TO BUILD A NEW BIRD HOUSE.

Also: I think Snow might be a better fit for Isaac than anyone else. He's so heroically absurd.

[mako_lies]

Ahaha, so Snow and... for Miria... Vanille?


I'm writing a deep Agrias fic, and writing about XIII with you. Good times are good.


I DON'T CARE WE ALREADY HAVE THIRTY BIRDHOUSES. I WANT TO MAKE ANOTHER ONE. NOW.

[lowkey]

And Serah's like "LETS DO IT."

But of course Vanille would be a better fit. Maybe Fang can teach Serah archery or something.

And Lightning smiles and rolls her eyes at Hope, and everything is beautiful.

[mako_lies]

YESSSS.

:)

God, though. Am I the only one who sees the similarities between Fang and Snow? Like, they both act and have these huge, gaping doubts. And they have someone they'd do anything for, and ideas they won't compromise on? And a need to protect people (*sentinel*).

It always strikes me about writing them. Except Snow's like... the good half of that, and Fang's the warped half?

[lowkey]

No, that's a fantastic point, and I never ever really considered the similarity between Snow and Fang -- though of course, your fic does a good job bringing that out.

BUT I wouldn't say Fang is the warped half. I'd say instead: Fang protects by punching; Snow protects by taking the punch.

[lowkey]

And Sazh goes to the zoo with Dajh, and Jihl tags along, and Rosch is the police inspector that has harsh-but-fair and takes his job very seriously and keeps everyone safe. And Rygdea is a country singer and he lives with Cid, who... flys airships, obviously.